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| Would you like to contribute to a more consistent playlist when requesting? |
| Yes, I would give it a try to be a better DJ! |
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15% |
[ 3 ] |
| Yes, but I think my requesting is good enough |
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45% |
[ 9 ] |
| No way! I request only the things I like for myself |
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40% |
[ 8 ] |
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| Total Votes : 20 |
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 Dutchbat
Captain
Joined: Aug 09, 2008
Member#: 22196
Posts: 1875
Location: Roosendaal
   
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 Posted:
Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:05 am Post subject: How to improve the SST playlist. |
 
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article removed by author as my intentions and efforts are no longer appreciated.
_________________
take a look at my collection: My album list
Last edited by Dutchbat on Fri May 05, 2017 4:07 am; edited 2 times in total |
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 molossus 
Admiral (Administrator)
Joined: Aug 09, 2005
Member#: 11167
Posts: 3312
Location: Warsaw & once in a blue moon Szczecin (Poland)
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Posted:
Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:00 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure if I got everything right, but it looks like we would need to tag all tracks in our database according to that scheme: PR/C/EX/RC/RG and maybe even add more than one tag to every track.
And then we would need to update all the tags every 2-3 months probably.
And we should "teach" SAM to recognize these tags just like SAM has recognized green/yellow/red coloured tracks in our playlist so far.
Otherwise I don't see how we could keep the clock pattern based on people's good will only.
But maybe I take Dutchbat's post too literally.
BTW: I think it would be interesting if we could "teach" SAM (read: implement new SAM rules) to make SAM keep the track of the clock schedule and to change colours (green/yellow/red) of every track in our library accordingly to clock schedule (after every track that has been played).
_________________
<i>"The piano keys are black and white,
But they sound like a million colors in your mind"</i>
(from "Spider's Web" by <a href="http://katiemelua.com/music/#KatieMelua">Katie Melua</a>)
Avatar is from work of art by Drew Struzan
Last edited by molossus on Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:16 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Dutchbat
Captain
Joined: Aug 09, 2008
Member#: 22196
Posts: 1875
Location: Roosendaal
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Posted:
Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:09 am Post subject: |
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Well we have already year and request ratio at the album info.
It will take some getting used time but it really has neat results if you actually request along the schedule.
I did so when there still was the possibility of making an early morning train and the result was above expectation.
And sure it's only a guideline, sometimes longer tracks will 'eat' away one trench and with shorter tracks you can easily have two category requests back-to-back.
And yes, all depends on the willingness for people online to request with an eye out for diversity.
The main complaints about SAM were in fact it not being in line with schedule.
The call for more favorites is in fact due to SAM having to many EX and RC instead of PR and C which should be at least 5 an hour each.
_________________
take a look at my collection: My album list |
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 Quicksilver
Cadet 4
Joined: Nov 06, 2005
Member#: 12313
Posts: 15
Location: Monterey Bay
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Posted:
Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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Having SAM pay attention to this seems reasonable, but as Molossus said, the information would need to be machine-identifiable.
The big reason for flags, however, comes with the requests. Even if I have good intentions, it takes significant time to figure out what category a track is in, particularly save perhaps obvious exploration or premium. Asking someone to do that every request, or when dropping in a quick request, is a strain – which makes people who otherwise have good intentions not want to do it.
Even if I do go through that trouble of identifying what category a particular track of mine is – there is no way to know what slot is supposed to be filled. When in the clock is the bottom of the playlist? Particularly as it isn't just a simple order, but what comes after what changes over the hour. What do I do if someone lists and out-of-clock track – do I put in what it should have been, or what would be in this time slot? What if I miss it and someone requests into that slot ahead of me while I'm thinking about all of this?
I think, ideally, if we wanted to implement this, we'd need to give SAM the authority to re-arrange the order of requested tracks. One might imagine a system where, if I request a "Current" song, SAM takes the request and slots it into the Queue at the next time interval it needs a "Current" entry, even if that puts it ahead of an earlier requested "Popular" song. That, plus identity flags, would allow the requesters to make quick, informed decisions to fit the wheel. |
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 alien_avatar
Captain
Joined: Oct 28, 2006
Member#: 16007
Posts: 1342
Location: Berlin
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Posted:
Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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Full disclosure: I hate just about everything about this "clock schedule" idea.
Well... not so much about how SAM makes his choices, but the idea that active requesters are supposed to accomodate some fancy-schmancy requesting system.
The ability to request anything you like at any time (more or less) is one of the things I really like about SST. And everyone can do it!
Some people only request Star Trek, others have a thing for a certain composer, still others are RAT/NUT hunters; I personally tend to work my way through albums I have picked with the occasional fave thrown in. 
I've never had a problem with the queue. Sure, sometimes there is a somewhat jarring style change, but that has never caused me to run away screaming.
There are a few tracks/albums that make me hit 'mute', but I guess we all have those... and it doen't matter to me what gets played right before or after.
Also that thing about keeping listeners "mentally engaged" by mixing styles up (if I understood that correctly?)... I don't know, music is pleasant background noise to me. I'm not paying exclusive attention to every single track that is being played.
Out of about 300-500 listeners there's maybe 50 who are even logged in and of those 25 request stuff. As was already mentioned when the request times were fiddled with, that's quite often not enough to "keep SAM away".
Long story short: I don't care what method SAM uses to determine which tracks will be played, but personally I'll go on requesting what I want, whether it fits that Clock Schedule or not.
_________________
"Welcome to the paranoia club; cheapest fees in the universe and membership lasts forever."
- Peter F. Hamilton, The Evolutionary Void |
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molossus
Admiral (Administrator)
Joined: Aug 09, 2005
Member#: 11167
Posts: 3312
Location: Warsaw & once in a blue moon Szczecin (Poland)
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Posted:
Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| alien_avatar wrote: |
The ability to request anything you like at any time (more or less) is one of the things I really like about SST. And everyone can do it!
(...)
I'll go on requesting what I want, whether it fits that Clock Schedule or not. |
Looks like there is not much difference between You and Dutch, alien.
Let me quote Dutch's remark from chatroom, please:
| Quote: |
| Freedom of request is a main aspect, the schedule is just a guideline for people who want to do it right or better |
And one more bit from chatbox:
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> j2brown: Also, if I understand it right, you're not proposing forcing folks to follow any schedule or otherwise restrain them. You're proposing that SAM follow those constraints, and you're hoping to allow the users to also choose to do so.
> j2brown: Is that the plan?
> Dutchbat: Yep
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_________________
<i>"The piano keys are black and white,
But they sound like a million colors in your mind"</i>
(from "Spider's Web" by <a href="http://katiemelua.com/music/#KatieMelua">Katie Melua</a>)
Avatar is from work of art by Drew Struzan |
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alien_avatar
Captain
Joined: Oct 28, 2006
Member#: 16007
Posts: 1342
Location: Berlin
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Posted:
Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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OK. I wasn't following the chat conversation.
So maybe I got my hackles up over nothing. 
_________________
"Welcome to the paranoia club; cheapest fees in the universe and membership lasts forever."
- Peter F. Hamilton, The Evolutionary Void |
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molossus
Admiral (Administrator)
Joined: Aug 09, 2005
Member#: 11167
Posts: 3312
Location: Warsaw & once in a blue moon Szczecin (Poland)
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Posted:
Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| alien_avatar wrote: |
So maybe I got my hackles up over nothing. |
I like your post. It reminded me nicely how important the right to request as freely as possible is
_________________
<i>"The piano keys are black and white,
But they sound like a million colors in your mind"</i>
(from "Spider's Web" by <a href="http://katiemelua.com/music/#KatieMelua">Katie Melua</a>)
Avatar is from work of art by Drew Struzan |
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Dutchbat
Captain
Joined: Aug 09, 2008
Member#: 22196
Posts: 1875
Location: Roosendaal
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Posted:
Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Reply removed by author
_________________
take a look at my collection: My album list
Last edited by Dutchbat on Fri May 05, 2017 4:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dutchbat
Captain
Joined: Aug 09, 2008
Member#: 22196
Posts: 1875
Location: Roosendaal
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Posted:
Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| molossus wrote: |
| alien_avatar wrote: |
So maybe I got my hackles up over nothing. |
I like your post. It reminded me nicely how important the right to request as freely as possible is |
I don't.
If people won't make the effort of reading a well-meant article well and instead post a flamingly hating answer over something that's not even concerning them as it turns out then I wonder why the hell I'm still doing this.
And NO, I'm far on the other spectrum than Alien, requesting not only for myself but keeping the station and its listeners in mind as well.
And please close this thread, I'm not contributing to it anymore
_________________
take a look at my collection: My album list |
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DieTeeFee
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
Member#: 36042
Posts: 291
Location: where the trouble is at.
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Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:31 am Post subject: |
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(Since this Thread is not closed, I am taking the liberty to post something here...)
I have been thinking about this scheme thing after a conversation Iwan the blue and Dutchbat had recently in the chat.
So i was wondering: Is it possible to programm a button (much like the "suggest a random track" button) that suggests a track that fits this sceme? My programming knowledge is very VERY theoretical, so i will have to leave the specifics to you smart people... but my idea was something like:
1) take the last request in the queue and determine its category by the following sheme:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/88184175/tracks.png
2) determine which category to play next:
a) i'm a lazy/stupid person, so i would just make sure the category played next is a different category from the analyzed track.
b) alternately you could analyze not only the last track played, but the last couple and actually go with the colour wheel: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/88184175/colours.png
...though that seems like a lot of programming work to me 
c) you could also do a middle thing between a and b and analyze the last 2 tracks and make sure the next one is from another category.
3) suggest a random track that fits the category determined in step 2. (By filtering the tracks that the random function works on due to the criteria in step 1???)
4) hope that the user who was interested enough to klick this button actually wants to request whatever came up here. Maybe it would be interesting to suggest multipe tracks that fit the next category (like 3 or 5?) so the requesting person can choose one of them?
I think the basic idea of this scheme is not a bad one... but to make the users determine which category is which is faaaaar to much effort for the poor requesters. So a button who does the determining work for them seems like a logical solution to me. This way, all the people who are interested in requesting after this scheme (or just do not know what they wanna request) can just hit the button.
Allright. Now i am totally prepared for you to tell me that this is an ridiculous amout of programming work / that noone would be interested in klicking this button / that this wheel scheme is stupid and we should stop thinking about it.
I just thought i'd throw the idea out here, since i personally would be interested in this. (buuuut i'm not smart enough to program it... shame on me)
Have a nice day everyone!
(PS. I am aware that my diagrams look terrible. I was too lazy to do something more elaborate... especially since there is quite a chance that this idea will get shot down anyways...) |
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molossus
Admiral (Administrator)
Joined: Aug 09, 2005
Member#: 11167
Posts: 3312
Location: Warsaw & once in a blue moon Szczecin (Poland)
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Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:39 am Post subject: |
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The "button" idea is great. And I guess it probably wouldn't be too hard to program it.
The problem is a work required to tag all the tracks from our library to divide them into categories to let the program (and the button) work.
_________________
<i>"The piano keys are black and white,
But they sound like a million colors in your mind"</i>
(from "Spider's Web" by <a href="http://katiemelua.com/music/#KatieMelua">Katie Melua</a>)
Avatar is from work of art by Drew Struzan |
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DieTeeFee
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
Member#: 36042
Posts: 291
Location: where the trouble is at.
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Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:56 am Post subject: |
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well i was thinking of determining the "tag" only when the button is actually clicked, and only for the last track of the queue and only temporarily. (according to step1). so there is no need to give every track his own tag. the determination process is only dependent on the year of the soundtrack, and the number of times it was played. those are both numbers we already have in the system, right? |
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molossus
Admiral (Administrator)
Joined: Aug 09, 2005
Member#: 11167
Posts: 3312
Location: Warsaw & once in a blue moon Szczecin (Poland)
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Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Ah, I think you are right, Fee and I didn't pay enough attention to your diagram.
_________________
<i>"The piano keys are black and white,
But they sound like a million colors in your mind"</i>
(from "Spider's Web" by <a href="http://katiemelua.com/music/#KatieMelua">Katie Melua</a>)
Avatar is from work of art by Drew Struzan |
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Luther_III
Commander
Joined: Jun 20, 2005
Member#: 10621
Posts: 851
Location: New Orleans
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Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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The tags are not a bad idea, but it doesn't seem that easy to implement in such a large library.
By the way, I've heard a number of references to a downturn in the number of SST listeners a couple of years ago. Wasn't that pretty much attributable to Live365 going away?
_________________
"If I were not a physicist, I would probably be a musician. I often think in music. I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.... I get most joy in life out of music."
--Albert Einstein |
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